Shotgun Sports USA
Join us as we bring you insights from some of the most skilled clay-target shooters worldwide. Our podcast is dedicated to Sporting Clays, FITASC, Trap Shooting, and Skeet Shooting, offering extensive coverage of all facets of Clay Target Sports. Immerse yourself in valuable knowledge through interviews with renowned coaches, dive into the dynamic environment of gun clubs, connect with top-notch vendors, and explore the innovations propelling the sport forward. Tune in for a captivating journey through the realm of elite shotgun sports!
Shotgun Sports USA
Zach Keinbaum & Mike Wilgus: The great outdoors and sporting clays
This episode promises to deliver some wisdom from Mike's captivating hunting stories in the Northwest, wielding vintage Remingtons, to sub-gauge shotguns paired with cutting-edge Bismuth ammo for hunting. Lean in as we talk about Mike's journey from his hunting heritage to aiming for a world vet title in the disciplined arena of competitive shotgun sports.
Join us as we explore the camaraderie and dedication within the shooting community, where size and physical fitness play their part in staying on target. We dissect the recent Jack Links Cup in Florida, get into Mike's ambitious travel for sport, and talk about his transition into the vet class with eyes set on the prize. Whether you're a beginner or a veteran in the world of sporting clays, this conversation is loaded with insightful reflections on the sport's competitive and adventurous spirit.
Finally, we discuss registering for events and the issues we are facing. Discover the enchanting Rock Mountain Sporting Clays facilities that blend history and innovation for hosting premier events. And for those who geek out on gear, you won't want to miss our detailed discussion on Pilla shooting lenses and ammunition preferences that could sharpen your game. Tune in for a shot of inspiration and a barrel full of knowledge with Zach and Mike.
Welcome to Shotgun Sports USA. Powered by Winchester Ammunition, the American legend. Listen to the best shotgun shooters from all over the world in every discipline Championship-winning coaches, gun clubs, target setters, vendors, as well as companies that make it all happen, brought to you by Briley Rick Hemingway's Promatic Trap Sales, cole Gunsmithing, clay, target Vision, castellani USA and Falcon Strike. Thanks for listening and remember to visit us online at ShotgunSportsUSAcom, like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram.
Speaker 2:In this episode I have two well-known shooters and coaches that know how to win. We talk a little bit about everything and find out more about each other. It's always fun talking to these guys and I'm glad they were able to come on again. Please welcome back to the show Zach Keenbaum and Mike Wilgus.
Speaker 3:I've asked Justin several times and I've told him that I don't know why. If I was going to interview someone on this podcast, mike is the first one that's come to mind. He's just a guy that I met I was in college age and he was from the West Coast and shooting. Well, I've just always looked up to Mike.
Speaker 2:You've brought him up several times. Hey, let's get Mike on. I said Zach, I've had Mike on. He's like no, you haven't. I said yes, I have. Now Mike's only been on one podcast that I know of Mike. Can you correct me if I'm wrong?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yours yeah, and it was, I don't know. I think we did it in like 2020, didn't we?
Speaker 2:It was a long time ago, it's been a while.
Speaker 3:It was a long time. I went back and listened to it today. It was pretty good.
Speaker 2:So is there other questions that you come out of that podcast wanting to ask, or did Mike not?
Speaker 3:finish it. I think you guys covered it fairly well, but I'd love to hear when I talked and spent time with Mike. He's always telling me stories about when he was younger, but I think he could expand a little bit more on where he's from and his family and how he got into the outdoors. I wonder why the outdoors, sports and hunting is important to him.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean I can expand on that my dad was in the Air Force, so you know we moved as kids. We moved all over the place, but I was born in Galveston, texas, and then, you know, a few years later, shortly after that, we ended up in Tri-Cities, which is Eastern Washington, and there's a lot, as Zach knows, there's a lot of outdoor things there. As far as hunting goes and my dad was an avid hunter, so we would back then it was easy, you could hunt anywhere, everything wasn't all leased up and we would literally go. He'd pick me up, pull me out of school, we'd go duck hunting before school and drop me back off. We had a limit and I mean it was. It was crazy. Back then We'd pass, shoot geese at, you know, five feet over our head and we hunted a lot.
Speaker 2:Did you just kind of sort of get back into hunting, or have you been hunting and we just haven't seen pictures of it, or is this?
Speaker 4:I mean, I just actually did kind of get back into it this year. I mean, I've I've always gone, maybe once a year, but with Kayla and us just being so busy I have not gone. This year I went a fair bit and and Zach and I went together over in Eastern Washington Kevin Michael and Dominic Gross and we had a blast. We had a good time.
Speaker 3:I know I that was an epic trip. I don't want to let the cat out of the bag, but that that region is, in my opinion, one of the very, very best parts of the country to kill Waterfall. There's no question. No, everyone wants to go to Arkansas and now Missouri and Kansas. Northwest is where it's at for sure.
Speaker 4:And and Justin, I don't think fact thought I could hit a duck.
Speaker 3:He brought, he brought out, or you could tell the story, but he brought out a special gun and I watched him kill a Drake Mallard with it. Pretty, pretty cool.
Speaker 4:Well, zach was all about bringing sub gauge and I didn't. I don't have a 28 gauge but I go. Ok, I'll bring my 410. I've got a 410 1100 that I had as a kid. I mean my dad, my dad shot it, I shot it, we all shot it. But you know I killed stuff with that as a kid and my dad passed away and I ended up with that gun and I mean literally this gun. Kayla shot it, you know I pulled the pad off. She'd shoot clays on the ground. That's what she started with. So I popped the pad back on that thing. It's like a 26 inch 1100 410, 3 inch full. So I brought that in the blind with us on that hunt over in Othello and the first duck of the day for me was that gun with a three inch Bismuth 5 and just knocked it out of the sky. So that was pretty cool.
Speaker 2:So this is a Remington 1100. I don't don't even make that gun anymore, do they?
Speaker 4:know, and it's pretty mint right, Zach.
Speaker 3:It's in great shape for as old as you told me it was. It's an awesome shape, you know. So that was a highlight.
Speaker 2:That'd be a cool gun.
Speaker 4:That was it. It's really cool, so that was a highlight of the day, shooting one with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're shooting a youth model 410 Remington.
Speaker 3:Yeah all the new Bismuth ammo available has really brought these sub gauges back, and I think you're going to see more and more of that people hunting with their old guns and guns that maybe couldn't shoot steel in the past. You're going to see a lot more of that. It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 4:Next season we're going to have Winchester three inch Bismuth 28 gauge.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, so that's going to be good, I killed a lot of ducks with that this year.
Speaker 2:Mike, you're going to get a 28 gauge now. You're still going to shoot the 410.
Speaker 4:No, I think Zach might talk me into getting a 28 gauge for next year. Why?
Speaker 2:Zach, why is everybody or I guess it's just you, but everybody goes with you? You're like all right, you got to shoot sub gauge. Why are you shooting 28?
Speaker 3:It's not, it's not just me. I got a whole group of buddies that are shooting 20s and 28s. It's, I promise you, I killed over 150 ducks and geese this season with 28 gauge. I don't think I'd have killed 155 with the 12th. It is beyond capable. And and when you do find success and and and kill limits with 28, I promise you the satisfaction is it's a different set Satisfaction it's. It's so much fun. That's kind of sad. I have to put that gun up. Honestly, you're about a month ago. I'm like I was holding it. I'm like, oh, I'm not going to get to shoot you for a while.
Speaker 4:You'll break it out at Nationals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll shoot it at Nationals. Do you have the upland 28? What are you shooting?
Speaker 3:I have the Beretta upland magnum. Yeah, it's a new three inch Beretta A 400. There's some good two and three quarter inch ammo available, especially for lead, but a lot of these waterfowl loads are now three inch and Benelli makes a three inch model. Beretta's got got their three inch now and now the ammo companies are all falling suit and coming out with a lot of good stuff.
Speaker 2:I was. We're talking about guns. I was in a gun store the other day and I saw a Beretta on the wall and it was a A 300 sporting which I haven't seen yet and I thought it was. It's black with lime green accents. I thought it was a really cool gun for the price, have you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a cool gun.
Speaker 2:Have you seen those?
Speaker 3:I have I know Joe Feneese's got one, desi has one. They're cool.
Speaker 4:Like it's a lot like a 391, isn't it?
Speaker 3:It's a lot of the same design the triggers a little triggers a little more like an A 400. But that gas, the gas piston, is similar to some of the newer guns. But other than that, that straight bolt, the you know the connecting rod, all of that is kind of that old three series guns that that we all kind of grew up shooting and the cycling of the gun really feels familiar. So it's, it's a, it's that same design that everyone's shot for so many years.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a good gun.
Speaker 3:So, mike, you had a. You had a pretty good start to your season at the Jack links last week.
Speaker 4:I did. Yeah, I had. You know I practiced a fair bit. I couldn't practice up at Rock Mountain, but I got to practice. I practice a fair bit three to four days a week and I came into that pretty confident, literally before I went I shot 100. Then I shot at 99 and then got on the plane and the first event at Jack's link, I shot 98 and then just kept it rolling throughout the weekend. I shot 99, super sporting 99 feet, ass, 97, five stand. It was good.
Speaker 3:I just I was relaxed and Confident and I noticed when I was looking at the results. I went to the payouts there's. You got a pretty healthy payout there and some of it looks like it's coming from a new class.
Speaker 4:Yeah, can you believe that?
Speaker 3:That's awesome. Yeah, so, mike. Mike this year for the first time, is now a vet class shooter, veteran 55 and over. Yeah, that just doesn't sound.
Speaker 4:I've been.
Speaker 3:I've been not teasing, I think. I think, julie, and sometimes you thought I was teasing, but I I'd been talking about this with you for a couple years and I I was more excited about it than you guys were at times. I Talk about any. I mean, is there, is there a new fire? Is it something different to look at on the on the score sheet? What do you think I?
Speaker 4:Don't know, I guess it was. It's not a new fire, but it's a new, I Guess, a new set of goals. But I mean I'm still right up top in the open. But yeah, it's nice to have another, another concurrent to go after and new goals of you know, maybe go win a world vet title or something this summer.
Speaker 3:There you go, are you on? You made both teams for Team USA. I did.
Speaker 4:I made Team USA captain of sporting and I made fee tasks also and I think, mcguire's captain of that one. That's awesome, so that's good. We got a strong team.
Speaker 3:Oh, awesome team, I was All along. I would. I would kind of reiterate to you I mean it doesn't change, you're still trying to win HOA every time, but I would. I mean I'm ten years away from vet class and I, I have it in my sights. I would, I wouldn't mind. You know these young kids, you know the Fenezes and the Todd's and these kids coming, they're coming hard. I Got another ten years to deal with them, but I would, I would be excited about I think it's awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's another bonus, right, I mean it. It's a good thing. It's just it keeps me pushing hard.
Speaker 3:You know, try to stay in shape and yeah, it's all good and that's where and that's where I think You're gonna sustain a lot of success. I think it as we all get older and I have something I definitely have to be thinking about. I, when I watch, I've seen guys there were great shots kind of as their health kind of goes they're shooting, their shooting drops a bit and I just don't, I don't see that happening with you. I think you're probably is the most in shape 55 year old shooter I know.
Speaker 4:Anthony said if it looks like I missed my shot at the NBA, yeah, that's the plan, right, stay in shape and keep grinding in 2023?
Speaker 3:When will cherry won the US Open in 2023? George Digweed won the world fee tasks, one of the most physical world fee tasks that I have ever been a part of as A veteran won the entire tournament, so it doesn't mean anything other than you get to pick up two trophies at every, every event. Now, yes, that's true.
Speaker 4:That's true. Don't you guys think there's something to bigger shooters? Is there an advantage to be being bigger?
Speaker 3:largely, I mean historically A lot of the better shooters are bigger guys. Mm-hmm, there's got to be something to it.
Speaker 4:You think it's a recoil thing or an endurance thing, or what do you think it is? He's got to be right.
Speaker 2:That's what I think it is. You're talking about overweight. I mean seriously like bigger.
Speaker 4:I'm just talking big, whether you're strong, big, tall, I mean Look at, look at the guys I mean that are up top there's, you know, everyone's bigger. Yeah in general. Not, it's not a. You know, not everyone is obviously Joe Feneze's tiny, but it just seemed like a trend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think there's some to it. Recoil, accumulation of recoil, being able to truly move the gun there's probably something to it. But yeah, for for every ten big guys there's probably two, you know, joe Feneze's, karen Shed's, yeah, yeah, smaller people, yeah, and Joe's young. Who know? I doubt he's gonna be that, that skinny forever.
Speaker 2:Right, you will, right you do. Yeah, joe's the same size. He was ten years ago, it seems like to me. I saw that video you posted of him the other day when he's running with those hogs in his hand.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's to me. He still acts like that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like he's oh, you get him out there chasing hogs. He's turns into an animal. That kid doesn't do anything. You know half-ass, no. So what'd you guys think of Jacklings? You're both there, you have fun.
Speaker 4:I had fun. I thought it was a great event, except for that rain on Sunday, but it I dealt with it. Um, but it's always fun to go to Florida out of here for the winter and get down there in the sunshine, and it's a well-run event.
Speaker 2:I mean, think how far Mike went to get to Jacklings, like all the way across Caddy corner, the country. Oh, yeah, man is how long was the flight, mike?
Speaker 4:about five and a half hours, like three and a half more hours, and I'm in London.
Speaker 3:That's kind of what I was alluding to earlier. You know I be. I might live in Georgia now, but I'm definitely a West Coast guy and I understand the grind that it takes to compete at the level that Mike is competing at year after year for a long time now. Take such dedication. I mean the. There are great shooters out West, I promise you. I mean Myself and Mike and Gavin. We're all from out there. There's other good shooters and it takes. It's just there's so far between clubs. There's so many states Do you have to travel through to get to any major shoots that it it takes. It takes a lot of effort. I don't think some some point. You know some parts of Texas or the southeast or even some northeast, they don't have to travel like that.
Speaker 2:It's, uh, the big shoots down here. I was gonna say they're so cool. I'm gonna say they're so close together, exact like the Caribbean classic. And then you got Jack links, and you got Gator Cup, you got Seminole Cup. I mean, mike, with, for you know, six hours worth of driving, you can be at all of those places. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's.
Speaker 4:That's crazy. I mean you guys are lucky that there's so many majors down there. But I don't know, I've gotten used to the travel. So I mean it's difficult, but I've done it for so long. It's just for me, it's part of the job. I mean I just do it and I'm probably one of the One of the people that travels the best in the country because of that, even when we go to Europe, I'm just used to it.
Speaker 3:There's no question, mike, you, you are. I was before we got on this call. I was thinking to myself I'm like I can't think of a better, a better shooter that that has a full-time job away from the shooting industry. I think it'd be hard press to find someone with a better resume in sporting plays at least in the modern sporting plays that it doesn't work at a gun club or teach full-time, right. So I think that's that should be something you definitely Hang your hat on, because I think that's special.
Speaker 2:Mike getting you. You move to a Kreg off win two years ago 2020 was the first year and you started out with a parkour, I think. And now you're, aren't you shooting a high-rib again?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm back to the prosporter. I mean, that's just the gun for me. I Experimented with those other ones for a while, but for me, the prosporters, the gun it's just suits my size and everything better. The other ones feel like kids guns to me. Do you think that had a?
Speaker 2:That played a part on your shooting is changing back to the prosporter.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I mean my consistency has come back like immediately. So, yeah, all last year, all last year nationals was great, rolled into Jax Link, it's great. So, yeah, all the consistencies back and yeah, I attribute a lot to going back to that gun. Well, what's?
Speaker 2:that what you got to say about that. He's just it awesome. There's only a cut. There's only a few in the whole country that shoot those guns. Super well, you know.
Speaker 3:I mean Mike, mike, kevin, karen, kevin DeMichael still shoots a high rib. Bill's bills rib is not what I would describe as a true high rib.
Speaker 4:Very no bills ribs problem bills probably more like a vantage blouse or even less Right right, but it works for them.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't, I wouldn't put my students in them right away, but it definitely works for them. So, mike, uh, I'm your on the last. I listen to that last podcast. Like I said and Kayla was, she was shooting a fair bit at that time, but In the in the two, three years since, how she, how she been doing.
Speaker 4:Oh, she's been doing great. I mean, last summer was kind of a breakthrough, for especially when we went over to Europe and, um, you know, she Kayla's a different animal because she doesn't feel pressure and she just went into Europe. You know, I'm confident and boy, look what she did. She ended up on the podium at the world championship and and she's building on that Latte her gun broke at the world fee test so we had to deal with that late in the season and then, right before national, she got a new stock by Greenwood and I think that's gonna be Major plus this year having that custom stock on the gun. Finally, oh, no question.
Speaker 3:I tell people I mean the stocks more important than the gun at times.
Speaker 4:Right, right, and she's still in the bread. A 400. Um, I, with the new stock, is literally no recoil in that thing. It's awesome.
Speaker 3:She's growing, she's, she's, she's growing a lot. But I mean, even even at this age, at that size, they still want to keep her as comfortable as possible. You know, learning those moves, learning those different shots, without recoil being a thought in your mind In the long run, huge.
Speaker 4:So you think we ought to stay with that?
Speaker 3:longer For the time being. Yeah, I mean yeah we'll see.
Speaker 2:did you, did you think that? I guess you probably did think that cable would be shooting, but did you think she would be shooting as well as she is? I want to say as fast as she is?
Speaker 4:I would say, yeah, I did think she would be shooting to that level. I mean, I actually think this year you're gonna see more of a leap out of her. To say the truth, she's just getting so much bigger and stronger and and she knows where to put the gun. I mean, I've never seen anyone Literally be able to hang on to, to quartering birds like I've never seen anyone hang on to birds like her and be able to just crush them. And she's gonna have a big year.
Speaker 2:Nice. She like basketball, or does she like?
Speaker 4:shooting best. I would say she likes both. But you know basketball is compartmentalized because she's the season's over, like this weekend. They just left for state today, so it's over after that and then we can get you know. Next week we go to Arizona for the regional, so she hasn't practiced a lot before this regional, but she'll be fine and you know this will be her start to the season and and we'll go from there.
Speaker 2:I remember Zack you might have remembered this. I know you remember this, you you took a picture of Kayla when she was I don't know how she was. She was young and posted online and said this is gonna be your next National or world champion. I don't remember. I said yeah, future future.
Speaker 3:It's her doing an I dominance test, pointing at the camera, and I Mean I've known Kayla since she was tiny I mean tiny and we would do I dominance test on her back then and she just strong light, which is rare, super rare for any young lady and she's just I don't know she got it in her blood. Man she was. She's been around those shoots since before she could walk and she just Understands the game innately in a way that she doesn't even realize at times it's pretty cool to watch. She's not like Mike said, she doesn't get nervous because she's been around the some of the best players in the game her whole life and None of it's too big. So she's gonna be exciting to watch for sure.
Speaker 2:Speaking of, I guess, the lady shooters. They're getting awful close guys. Yeah, they are. I mean like they're getting close. When do you think is that? When do you think you'll see a lady H? Oh hey, the whole tournament. Are we closer than we then we've ever been? Probably, I guess we are.
Speaker 3:I mean we're closer than we've ever been. It would still surprise me at a big 200 burger when it when you know, when everyone's there especially. But some of these mid major shoots that could happen, who knows, I think I think two years ago Madison sharp hide for third at a regional in Arizona. I Don't think she won the shoot off so I don't think she stood on the podium, but I believe she tied for third. That's about the best to an, at least in our country. You know what our tour events that's gotten to? That's close. I mean that's really close. That's pretty close. Yep, that's. Coaching gets better as our tournaments just get Better. These girls are coming along right along with everybody else.
Speaker 2:Let's. What are you talking about? Tournaments? I want to bring up something to both of you and see what you have to say about this. I've I'm on the Score chaser pro program, but I don't use it. I think I just get it. So I get text messages when I start, or something like that.
Speaker 1:I don't know what I'm doing with it but I think it's a great idea.
Speaker 2:But are you, are you two guys, having a hard time getting into tournaments Like I am? Because I don't sign up.
Speaker 3:When I sign up, you know two months before well, I'm not, but I'm also using that score chaser pro and they sign us up as the shoots open.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm on the score chaser pro also, and because of that I Always get in. But and if I didn't have that, I'd have a problem because I'm always late to do everything. But yeah, they sign us up right when the shoots come out, which is double-edged sword, because we're paying deposits like a lot of money in deposits Eight, nine months in advance now, yeah, but all the, all the shoots fill up, you know, and be yeah because of score chaser pro.
Speaker 3:All the events fill up early and Getting into events later on in the process has become an issue, which I think is what you're describing. Yeah, justin, but yeah, I think you just need to fill out your preference sheet and have them start signing up to the shoot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you want them to well, you know, it's like they come out with Nationals is over and then now you can register for Nationals next year. I mean, I don't know if I can go next year.
Speaker 1:There's no sense I mean I don't.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like I told somebody today Well, I don't want to sign up for stuff, not knowing that I Can't, that I can make it. You know, I don't know if I can make it, so I'm just taking up a spot If I can't make it, and then it's. You know, I'll cancel a week or two before I go because I know I can't go, but Then somebody else can't go because they've been. You know what I mean. It's like a. It's like it's confusing to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like Mike said. It's a double-edged sword, for sure. Yeah, I don't know what the answer probably somewhere in the middle, I don't know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't have the answer either, but it's definitely a problem. And you're right, justin, I don't like when people sign up and then they don't show up. But yeah, I don't know another way to do it, because you have to sign up early to get a spot at most of these, like Gator Cup in a couple Weeks. It's full so, but we all know there's gonna be cancellations and people won't show up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I tell Mike. I say, if you're just standing in front of those girls on Thursday or Friday, they're gonna get you in.
Speaker 2:I talked to Rick today I thought. Rick today about that and he said just show up. I said okay.
Speaker 4:So, yes, it's a little tougher to show up when you're 4,000 miles away, though, without knowing You're gonna get in you're either gonna shoot the Gator Cup or you're gonna spend a weekend of speech.
Speaker 3:I mean, right away, you're probably right, right, yeah, but it is an issue, there's no question it's. It's interesting. Everything, everything evolves. I guess Casey's a smart girl. I bet she's gonna figure it out, though.
Speaker 2:So, both of you being coaches, what do you think about the new lessons things she's come out with her? Are you gonna utilize that or does it fit your?
Speaker 3:I had Talked to her about it a couple months ago. I'm more than willing to To use it. I haven't really had a chance to look at what she's posted here recently, but it should be good.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I haven't looked, but I talked to her about it and I'm definitely gonna do it when I free up some time for a rock mountain and and set up lessons there. It's a lot easier with that System to get everything booked in and and planned out accordingly. So, yeah, I think I'll use it. Yeah, rock Mountain, that I mean, anybody that Would have a chance to go.
Speaker 3:Number one take a lesson from Mike and Just get to go to rock mountain and shoot sporting clays. I mean, you got it, you gotta go. Mike, you talked about rock mountain on the last podcast. You did, but that's a special place, man, can you tell everyone a little more about the history of rock mountain and and what it actually is? Yeah, so rock mountain.
Speaker 4:Originally the late Jeff Vanden Top Built this range and it's it's really mountainous and rocky and it's a lot of rock and hilly and unlike any terrain, most people in the USC, but Anyways, when Jeff passed away I had already been a part owner of it. But then, come to this day, there's 13 of us who own it. It's on 75 acres, which isn't giant, but We've got, you know, three towers. Now We've got 32 stations, sporting course, probably 150 chromatic traps, all wireless. I mean it's we call it training ground of champions. I mean it really is an amazing facility and Justin.
Speaker 3:I don't think you realize. It's like shooting in a national park. There are there are boulders the size of houses that Jeff and these guys moved around like Strategically around this mountain. I mean it is incredible. And about half the stations have themes to them. So there's literally a duck pit where you're right at the edge of the water and it's like you're in an old school duck line. There's a saloon. You walk into a saloon, you walk into a jail. There's jail where you're shooting out the bars in the back.
Speaker 4:Is it chapel? There's a Chapel. We've got the world record fishing pole with a bobber in the pond. Oh yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool, I mean it. And the training, like I said, is that like for me, training there for Europe last year. It made Europe seem easy to me and I'm not kidding when I say that. So if you, if anyone gets a chance, I'm gonna hold two shoots there this summer, april 27th and June 22nd full 200 bird registered events with Trophies and all which are kind of cool. They're they're actually rocks with our, our logo on them. And, yeah, we can get a rock, not rock.
Speaker 4:That's awesome, it's about an hour if you were at the airport in Seattle. It's an hour and a half north. And then Future. Maybe in the next year or two We'll have a state shoot there or something else. So hopefully we can get some of the pros across the country to come out here and check it out.
Speaker 3:It's awesome. They used to hold a big shoot, the Western open. That ran for probably close to a decade. That a lot of top shooters, in fact. One year it was a. It was a qualifier for Team USA. Was it a zone or was it a? Wasn't a?
Speaker 4:regional it. It wasn't, but somehow they made it a qualifier and remember we, we actually Resquatted based on top to bottom scores. I've literally got a picture on a rock of me, zach Wendell, john Krueger, brad kid and Someone else. I mean we, we all shot a big, a major there. Yeah, oh yeah, I remember so it's. We'd like to bring that back.
Speaker 3:I love shooting in the north. Any Any northern state just has topography, it has terrain, it's not humid, good, good seafood. Oh my god, tell them, those are just some incredible shoots up there. I I Wish you get it going and I'd love to come back.
Speaker 2:How does it work with that many owners? Mike, y'all agree on everything, or how does I mean? You have me. How does that work with the many owners?
Speaker 4:No, we have a couple meetings a year. I mean, we're all on the same page. It works fine. We pay dues, you know, and then these shoots bring in money. So One of my my good buddy partners is John Thorpe and he's really into, I mean, making this place top notch. So we're, we're really this year is gonna be big. We're buying a lot of new stuff, we're getting new gravel on the whole course and this constant improvement. So, yeah, it works great with 13 guys.
Speaker 2:Your buddy from up there. What's his name? Oh, cowboy hat.
Speaker 4:Trevor yeah, trevor. Trevor's actually an owner too, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm just ever is a.
Speaker 4:Trevor's a good trap mechanic.
Speaker 2:Is he?
Speaker 4:Yeah, he actually is. That guy is awesome.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you he was. He is so funny to me I.
Speaker 4:Don't know. Yeah, he has a good time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, last week at Jack, like that, I was telling Johnny and Mike I'm like let's go, I want to take, I want to take Trevor Ducconning next year. And they're like okay, okay. And then they both, both of their faces changed and they're like Are you sure I?
Speaker 4:Don't know, I don't know Zach had handled Trevor in the duck blind.
Speaker 3:I can handle it.
Speaker 2:I think it'd be fun the first time we went out to eat with him, that Kayla was sitting next to him and it's like she just knew how to take him. And I've never met Trevor and oh you know he was saying things like wow this guy right here. Kayla just laughed at him like it wasn't what, nothing to it, and I just I didn't know how to take him. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Like it's yeah, yeah, yeah you, you were probably shocked, but yeah, once, once you know him and his story, and yeah, you, just you manage. I mean I shot the whole jackslink with him. So trust me, I know that we shot.
Speaker 2:I think we were at cross-creaker. We were somewhere Shooting with Trevor and he walks up. He comes walking down the course With his bag on his shoulder in flip-flops. I cut off Western shirt and a cowboy hat.
Speaker 1:I guarantee a lot of listeners.
Speaker 3:They're thinking I don't. Who are they talking about? It's the guy from out west that shoots without a shirt on half the time.
Speaker 4:Yeah you have all. Yeah. The big trucker tattoo on his back, yeah.
Speaker 3:These damn West coasters yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you get. If you get a chance to shoot with Trevor slice names human right. Yes, yeah, if you get a chance to shoot with him, he's he's never in a bad mood.
Speaker 4:I had never seen him in a no no he's a who.
Speaker 3:now that you're in vet class, what are your goals? Any new goals?
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, there's some new goals. I mean, I always have, like we talked about earlier, always have my open goals, but as far as vet goes, I'd like to win a world championship and a national championship and Keep making captain of the the teams for a Long time from now. So I I think I'm poised to do that. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you got you as the, as one of the top vets. Now I think you need to Encourage some of the other better vets to make the team and accept these positions to go overseas.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that kid next year. We got to talk about that because you know going we're be going to Europe next not this year, but go next year and we need to talk about a couple of the gut top guys. We need to get on that team and and go win over there. So you're exactly right.
Speaker 3:I think you have the right shooters. We just need to have them all there. That's correct, you know that's half the problem. Yeah, both you being in the United States this year will have a great field of vets, but it's not always the case.
Speaker 2:Is it the travel that?
Speaker 1:you're.
Speaker 4:Yeah, why do you suppose they don't go?
Speaker 3:Zach, it's the travel, it's just. I Mean we've all seen some people love that travel and some people Don't handle it as well. It's everything's different, everything's new and Some personalities just don't don't take to that. But they've all done it before they can handle it. They can, they can go see well.
Speaker 4:I mean, I love it, I'd go, I'd go every year if we could.
Speaker 3:so we try to right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean I, some of those ranges you and I went to last summer were were a blast and I think that was key, that we did get there early and we did those competitions. I really think it helped us. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Hungry was pretty incredible, but just the terrain, the cliffs, everything. Like Mike said he's he's from a northern state with terrain he was really at home, and some of that if you're from Flatland of Houston or Florida is very different, very different. What are, what are, some of the favorite places you've gotten the chance to travel to and shoot?
Speaker 4:Well, I mean always England is EJ Churchill's a top one. As far as out of the country, I liked it when we went and trained at Owls Lodge, even though it was small, but we had a great time. Barbary we went to this year. That was a great shoot. Yeah, sporting targets, it's a small little range over in England and, and Zach and I went there and shot the power challenge. That was a great time. That was incredible. Zach shot it amazing, by the way, but uh, yeah, that was a great day. I can't remember what was the name of the one. We went to it. Well, love its place. That was a good shoot.
Speaker 3:That super, oh yeah, um, I know what you're talking about in the Cotswolds, yeah, so they're not thinking is a name. Yeah, england, good, england's like a ride of passage is what I've always told my students. You go, not just about Churchill or wherever you're shooting it's, it's everywhere else You're gonna visit and cut your teeth on target You've never seen, and just that's awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it goes. It goes beyond that. I mean driving just to get there. I mean the On the wrong side of the road there's a lot, but I mean, every time I come back from Europe I feel like a better shooter. No question, no question.
Speaker 3:What are your other other? I thought England, what other? What other streets have you liked? I mean, America.
Speaker 4:I mean, obviously I like rock mountain here, but as far as major clubs, I like Eminem, backwoods, meadows. I haven't, I haven't gone to fourth city yet, so this year will be my first time there.
Speaker 1:Oh nice, oh you've never been looking forward to that I have not, no.
Speaker 3:Wow, he's never. I've lived here for four years he's never come to visit.
Speaker 2:I guess you're gonna have a house guest during the regional then, right?
Speaker 4:It seems like nobody has room there, so I'm probably gonna be stuck in a hotel at that one.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll send you the hotel I stayed in last time was super nice, and I'll send you the link to that. Okay, I got a room yet, yeah, four cities, a big place, it's um.
Speaker 3:I told people Just recently it's gonna be one of the shoots that you that's memorable because of the shooting but also because the after-hour stuff is gonna be. You know, everyone's not staying an hour every direction. Everyone's gonna be really close by. There's tons of excellent restaurants. It's just gonna be a shoot that a lot of people circle after the years over and they really enjoyed, you know so, even jack links or even backwards some of these other shoots. You're you're in the car for 45 minutes each way to get to the event. You're gonna be five to ten, fifteen minutes from Forest City and and Great places to visit in between.
Speaker 4:So yeah, that'll be one of the more fun shoots, I promise. Yeah, these 45 minute drives get old. I mean, you're so tired by the time you leave the club you barely want to go out to dinner because you just in the car so long. Right?
Speaker 2:Right, well, that'll be great. What place am I gonna eat at that when I go there?
Speaker 3:Well, right by the club there's excellent barbecue. There's a pretty good Mexican restaurant for Georgia. Being a West Coast guy, I'm a little picky on my Mexican food. It's pretty good. There's an excellent New York deli. They as good a deli as I've ever seen Right there by the gun club, all within five minutes of the gun club. Um, some different other stuff too there's. There's some great spots.
Speaker 2:That's funny, I you know. I thought when you said, being a West Coast guy, I'm really picky about my Mexican food. Is that because your roots go back to Mexico?
Speaker 3:No, because the Mexican food on the West Coast is flat out better, michael back me up, he's right.
Speaker 4:He's right, justin. It's more authentic. You know it's not Tex-Mex or whatever. So he's right, it is better, for sure.
Speaker 3:We went. We went to the same Mexican restaurant three days in a row for lunch.
Speaker 4:yeah, couple of our guys didn't want to go where we going for lunch, I were going to Mexican again. Yes, and it was good. It was authentic and good, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:I dominant gross when he landed on I. When we picked him up at the airport, he's. He said I don't know where, how he came out. But he said oh well, you're the only Mexican in Washington. I'm like, are you crazy? Eastern Washington is all Mexican.
Speaker 4:He was not the only one.
Speaker 2:I found a authentic Mexican restaurant here where I live about a month ago and it's like down an alleyway behind a school next to a gas station. I mean it's it's. I said, what is this place? I walk in and they've got nothing. It's like a grocery store for Mexican food.
Speaker 3:Oh, probably like a yeah meat market or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a meat market, I can talk right in there.
Speaker 3:Yep, yep. You should buy some of that stuff, I guarantee it's good.
Speaker 2:Well, I ate some of it. I'm like, I just don't like. I guess it's because I'm used to eating Tex-Mex, you know what. I mean it's like it's totally different to eat real, authentic Mexican food versus just.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, my advice for anybody being a, you know, a larger stature, you know I eat a lot and I am a quarter Mexican. My advice for anybody walking into a Mexican restaurant is, when you walk in, if there are not Mexicans eating, turn around. No, that's not good. That's exactly. If the Mexicans eat there, eat there.
Speaker 2:That is correct. And if they, if they don't understand what you're saying when you go in, it's probably good too, it's probably good. Yes, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3:I Can sport eating our way across.
Speaker 4:Hey, Justin, are we gonna give any shout outs to to sponsors or what ammo we shoot or anything? Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 1:You know that's my question.
Speaker 3:Do not edit this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go for it. Well, if can you ask me the question, all right, the question is, mike, you have anybody you'd like to shout out, like any sponsors or well, you know Kree got for my gun.
Speaker 4:I'm shooting a pro sport or 32 inch or and you know the big one is Winchester Probably the hardest hitting ammo made. And I'm shooting the 1250 super handicap ounce and an eighths for sporting and 1291 ounce light handicaps for fee tasks.
Speaker 2:I was talking to a guy tonight on the way home that mentioned you, dennis, with clay target vision. You and Zach are both on his, his protein, and it seems like every time I talk, soon one of your names probably desi more than both of you, but but but one of your names are always coming up. Yeah, I really appreciate Mike and I appreciate Zach, and you know, so I know he supports both of y'all and anybody listening. If you're looking for a set of pillows, that's the guy to go to for sure.
Speaker 4:He takes good care of us. And I'll tell you one thing I know Zach Doesn't wear them, but I've been wearing that new progressive Dragon fruit and it's the new technology progressive. So you literally can't visually see that line. Mm-hmm, I am, I'm amazed by that lens. I wore that lens the whole weekend in Florida. I'm just amazed by that lens Dragon fruit, progressive.
Speaker 2:I don't have that one. I think I got that love it.
Speaker 4:I also have a 47 C I HC that I love to and it's not progressive. But those are my two go-to lenses and I would say they're Kayla's too.
Speaker 3:What color?
Speaker 4:eyes. Do you have, mike Hazel? Another one is there's a 72. It's orange. You should look in and literally in Washington, where it in all low light conditions and I've even worn it at night shooting and it's amazing. I mean you could get with those three lenses. I said you could get by with almost every lighting condition.
Speaker 2:I've got it right here, I'll just gotta find it.
Speaker 3:Justin has every pillow lens known to man. I know two people that have every pillow lens. It's Justin Barker and Stormy Weatherford. Really, yes, they pride myself on their lens collections.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I find myself just wearing a few different ones. I mean, I I'm not a lens changer, I kind of just pick and go with it 72 CIM X. That is awesome, that's. I literally wear that every day in Washington.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a. That's a new one. They actually just come out a new one, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's, it's a game changer for low light.
Speaker 2:Zack, there might be something you need to look into.
Speaker 3:I need to look into that I'm not good at low light. Zack likes darker lenses. I need light, I need sunlight. I mean, there's no doubt I got a really good score in the rain the other day. It was dark, but most of my really good shooting is when it's bright. Yeah, you get you a good score. As I get old, as I get older, I realize that.
Speaker 2:What's your lenses? What do you shoot? My Mike called out his three. What's your three?
Speaker 3:I shoot a ton of of 18 ced. Yeah, kind of the old staple there's. I know a lot of good shooters that still just use that one when it starts. If it's green out like Florida is, I'm, like the southeast is, and it starts getting overcast or rainy, I kind of go to those cin, the purple, purple tint 19s. Um, those, those help me. Obviously I'm dark eyed. I have really really dark, brown eyes and To me those ed, those brown, amber tints and and purples have always worked very well for me. Um, like I said, I have struggled with low light, you know, and it's really getting close to dusk, and Dennis has been helping me out with some different, just looking for more contrast in that gray light. I'm trying to get there. Um, like I said, some of my best shootings when it's when it's brighter out, for sure, yeah, that's interesting, because I don't like purple whatsoever.
Speaker 4:You think it's an eye color thing.
Speaker 3:I yeah, it has to do with eye color?
Speaker 2:I'm sure it does, for sure, mike, that's all I shoot in, honestly. I mean, I'm not to where you all are, but all I shoot in is our 19 CINs. I don't care if it's 11 o'clock at night or if it's eight o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3:Most of the time, Ryan Harper, I think shoots in that lens quite a bit yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Um, yeah, I'm just, I'm a lighter lens guy, I don't. I don't shoot those really dark lenses, yeah.
Speaker 2:You're going back to stormy. You said stormy has a bunch of lenses. I saw him down at Jack links and he said he's wearing the new raptors from Pila and I said yeah, we were talking about him. He says I got every single lens they make he's. I got them all. I bought 20 when I was at the grand. I said what Okay?
Speaker 4:Here you go. That's expensive yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:I think he has every. He has every Beretta, he has every Pila lens. Yeah, I know for a fact he has a set of every kind of choke tube, every company's choke tubes he's got. He's just a collector.
Speaker 4:He's into it. Yeah, zach, let's talk about uh your thoughts on that. Uh, diamond trap Cause I know you were shooting some at uh Jack's link.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that diamond trap, the uh, I've kind of gravitated towards the. The diamond trap is different than the original diamond grade. The original diamond grades copper plated. Um, the diamond trap is 8% anammoni. Non plated. Yep, Um, and I think I just get more of that smoke. You break them with that, with the copper, similar to some of the European loads that are coated. They have some different coatings on them. Um, I don't get that dark smoke break that. I do with dark lead, with a coated lead, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you like, you actually like the trap, the non plated better Non plated 8% anammoni diamond trap is incredible.
Speaker 3:I'll shoot that at any anything long on edge. Uh, rabbits, stuff like that. We had several birds, um, at Jack links that I shot them on. I don't feel like need them for everything. You know, if there's some, if that birds within 40, uh, you can't tell me there's a better shell than a super handicap. Um, right, but when it get, when I need that pattern to be a little tighter, if I want make sure I've got multiple pellet strikes on something that's out there a ways that, uh, that diamond grade shines for sure.
Speaker 4:That's. That's kind of how I feel. I always like to have few with me.
Speaker 3:I've got I think I finally talked them into I think they're going to load it later this year is a one ounce, 12, nine feet diamond trap. Oh, that's great For the feet test shooters.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's probably it. I appreciate both of you coming on. Zach, your idea to have Mike on again, and I think it was. You know, I kind of like these podcasts where it's just a conversation, you know, there's no, there's no outlines, there's no, there's, you know, there's no real planning, it's just, it's just off the cuff. And I, you know, I kind of feel like that's the way this is and I enjoyed listening to the, you know, to the stories and what have you. So I appreciate both of you coming on and taking some time. Oh, no problem, we'll do it again, thanks for having us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, zach, I mean you're going to. You might wear out your welcome. I mean, you know, every time I say this on a bunch of podcasts and I know you listen and I know you hear it, you know, every time somebody comes on they talk about Zach and what Zach's done.
Speaker 3:They don't talk about. They might mention me.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean. And then you come on, I mean that's even work, like, I mean that's good, but that's even worse at the same time. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Well, I guess, if we start, if you start getting a bunch of complaints and comments, and we'll know no, we ain't going to have none of that.
Speaker 1:Everybody loves Zach.
Speaker 2:He's always been so nice. He's never like mad or he's always nice. No, he doesn't pick on him, he's a good guy. If you pick on it, then he changes.
Speaker 4:He's got. He's got gets his feelings hurt easy. You got to be careful he does. Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, guys. Thank you for coming on, and I'll see you somewhere here shortly.
Speaker 4:I don't know what's on the wall. All right, thanks, justin.
Speaker 2:All right guys. Thanks, Justin, See you Talk to you later.
